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Mother and Baby Homes Bill

Colm

Member
A thread for the Mother and Baby Homes Bill
One of the Biggest stories in the History of the state and possibly the one that will topple the Government as this will surely grow legs
Also the final nail on the Green Party I would assume who now have been shown to be the Government kick stands they are for a few bike lanes lol
Absolutely Scandalous stuff
Paddyland in full flight









Well done to Holly Cairns who really put the effort in,a very impressive performance for someone i never really watched before.
Even Loony Barrett had a good say at it

Fuck everyone who voted for this bill 100%,absolute scum
If You ever wanted to know that Ireland couldnt give zero fooks about its Women and Children well dont forget this one
I also see Green Members are leaving in their droves
That might be a bit late as You sold us all out a while back so now for me I would hazard a guess that aside the Shinners that it will be The Social Democrats will be the other opposition to grow legs but sure time will tell.
Politics aside,well done to any Politician who spoke out against this bill
Child Trafficking facilitated by the state where allegedly Politicians or there Family Members gained riches bye assisting in the selling of Irish Babies to other Countries "Child Trafficking in my book" anyway here is a thread for this topic and hopefully some people will contribute

Disgusting Stuff even for paddyland where we are used to been fooked over every time
PRICKS
 

olli rehn

Member
The whole thing is a big mess now. The governments handling of the affair is a disaster. I can see them slipping on this banana skin.
I certainly will not vote for the Greens again.
I stick to SF.
 
OP
Colm

Colm

Member
The whole thing is a big mess now. The governments handling of the affair is a disaster. I can see them slipping on this banana skin.
I certainly will not vote for the Greens again.
I stick to SF.

I have never voted for the Greens,but I can understand why some may have previously,although having sold us all out before I am stunned that some would vote for them again,It really is History repeating itself (a bit more sadistic and a pandemic thrown in for good measure).

Sinn Fein Yes I agree,but then You get to perhaps criminality or involved with criminals and maybe that stops people voting for them,but the reality is all the parties have been involved with crooks and there all as bad as each other.

just vote the opposition is all you can do in a very corrupt country as everyone in power will feed from the trough ultimately.

Can we even count 5 politicians that have not done so from all parties or independents who took a Ministerial role ?
(Tony Gregory immediately is exonerated but aside him who really ?)

vote the current robbing clowns out so they are kept on their toes and will give more the next time they get in,

if you don't do that you just have more of the same and next generation etc.

which is what we have

all about the pensions and expenses to them all otherwise this bill would never have been passed


disgraceful stuff
 

olli rehn

Member
I have never voted for the Greens,but I can understand why some may have previously,although having sold us all out before I am stunned that some would vote for them again,It really is History repeating itself (a bit more sadistic and a pandemic thrown in for good measure).

Sinn Fein Yes I agree,but then You get to perhaps criminality or involved with criminals and maybe that stops people voting for them,but the reality is all the parties have been involved with crooks and there all as bad as each other.

just vote the opposition is all you can do in a very corrupt country as everyone in power will feed from the trough ultimately.

Can we even count 5 politicians that have not done so from all parties or independents who took a Ministerial role ?

vote the current robbing clowns out so they are kept on their toes and will give more the next time they get in,

if you don't do that you just have more of the same and next generation etc.

which is what we have

all about the pensions and expenses to them all otherwise this bill would never have been passed


disgraceful stuff


Wait until it comes to decide about our pensions- they will screw us left, right and centre. The new pension commission will deliver its verdict next June...if we still have the same government...and it will probably advice to push up the pension age and bring down the rates of payment for the ordinary Joe Soap.
 
E

English James

Guest
Poor olli, trying to figure out which globalist, anti-Irish bunch of commies he loves the least 😂🤣😭😭😭
 
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English James

Guest
Go on- show us your true colours!
What is your advice to vote for next time?!
There is no party to vote for. All of the parties (that have TDs) are intent on destroying the nation as you are
 

olli rehn

Member
There is no party to vote for. All of the parties (that have TDs) are intent on destroying the nation as you are


OK- no party with a sitting TD would be your choice.
What about a party without a sitting TD?
You must have an idea whom you would advice to vote for.
 
E

English James

Guest
OK- no party with a sitting TD would be your choice.
What about a party without a sitting TD?
You must have an idea whom you would advice to vote for.
lol That's ridiculous.

The only party to vote for is a/the National Party. And every single nationalist on this island knows it. The problem of course is, there's very few of us.

We also have the huge time-waste that is bound to be Scum Féin. Ireland is in a very perilous position.. I see little hope.
 

Thus

Staff member
Moderator
Member
Wait until it comes to decide about our pensions- they will screw us left, right and centre. The new pension commission will deliver its verdict next June...if we still have the same government...and it will probably advice to push up the pension age and bring down the rates of payment for the ordinary Joe Soap.

That’s almost a guarantee Colm. You can’t expect irish politicians to have the interests of the Irish people in their hearts.
 
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English James

Guest
Let me say one thing about the IRA.

I said before, on PIsh, that I stopped supporting the IRA. But this is a complex situation.

I'm in my mid forties so I grew up during a lot of this, the news was always put on in the household and every bulletin something was happening, concerning the daily lives of Irish people living in the North.

Over time you start to think.. is it worth it? Hell, you'd start to feel guilty because I'm only a hundred miles down the road and my life isn't affected.

So I supported the GFA but I think this is one of the reasons people despise SF. They're sellouts.
 

olli rehn

Member
Let me say one thing about the IRA.

I said before, on PIsh, that I stopped supporting the IRA. But this is a complex situation.

I'm in my mid forties so I grew up during a lot of this, the news was always put on in the household and every bulletin something was happening, concerning the daily lives of Irish people living in the North.

Over time you start to think.. is it worth it? Hell, you'd start to feel guilty because I'm only a hundred miles down the road and my life isn't affected.

So I supported the GFA but I think this is one of the reasons people despise SF. They're sellouts.


No trick- just a temporary little arrangement!
 
OP
Colm

Colm

Member

160k signatures so far of 200k required



The comments in the tweet show the mood for the Greens
There finished for this
The only votes they will get may be from people who use the new bicycle lanes they created but thats it id say
 
OP
Colm

Colm

Member
Now that the Department of Children’s plan to seal the Mother and Baby Commission archive is so widely acknowledged to be wrongheaded that the President throws shade over it as he signs legislation, let’s try for some explanation of how this all happened.

Firstly, a reminder of exactly what the plan was from the Minister’s written answer to @GaryGannonTD from 29th Sept 2020.

“Those records shall remain sealed for 30 years”

This is to deal with any suggestions now being floated that there was never a plan to seal the archive.


Image


But how did the Minister, who everyone acknowledges to be a person of good faith, end up the spokesman for a 30 year sealing of wronged people’s personal data?

It’s an important question because it prompts us to take an institutionalist view of power instead of a personal one.
Firstly, a statement of my general theory of the limits of Ministerial power.

They have two buttons on their desk, marked Go and Stop.

Ministers, like everyone, like being able to say they’re getting things done at work, so they love pressing Go.

But it is the unusual Minister- the strong personality or the grizzled old pro- who will look at a plan where years of preparatory work have been completed, where announcements have been made, where careers have been advanced and say

“Stop, we’re not doing that.”

Now Ministers come and go but institutions like government departments have long memories. So, in 2002 (18 years ago, and a v different society) the then Minister Michael McDowell’s Department took a conventional view on records when drafting the 2004 Commissions of Inquiry Act.

And, as chance would have it, an insight into then Minister McDowell’s opinion on sealing the records of this particular Commission of Inquiry (unforeseen in 2004) is available to us through the proposed, pro-secrecy amendments of Senator McDowell this month.

But that opinion wasn’t what drove the in-house Departmental belief that there was a provision to seal records for 30 years in the 2004 Act he passed.

That idea came from a conventional wisdom approach to interpreting the Act.

C’mere, I’ll show you what I mean
Here’s the clause of the 2004 Act that the Dept thinks created a 30 year seal.

This belief was widespread in officialdom.



But read it with me. Image


Firstly, though this is not conclusive of anything, note the purpose of this section, written in little letters in the margin. It deals with “Availability of Records”

The opening thrust of intent is that this is about making records available, not sealing them.

But it’s not trying to determine the policy for availability of records for all purposes.What it’s doing is ensuring that Commission records will be treated in such a way that- no matter what- they will be examined and made available after 30 years under the National Archives Act

Think of it as a backstop for transparency- that 30 years is not a target for openness, it’s a deadline.

But if that’s so, why did all the officials read it as saying it sealed the records for 30 years?

Because- and I can’t stress enough the power of this phrase- That’s How It Has Always Been Done.

That’s the presumption of secrecy which Governments have applied to their records.

So when the Dept (and, it seems the Commission) saw a clause imposing the openness *requirement* after 30 years from the National Archives Act, they mentally classified it as being subject to the usual secrecy *policy*.

In short, as Senator Higgins correctly explained in her excellent contribution to this podcast, there was never a legal requirement for a 30 year seal.
Sorry, podcast link:


Ep.383 A Stand For Truth Special - Tortoise ShackIt has been a tumultuous week that has seen Ireland’s legacy of Institutional Abuse come to the fore in both the public and political realm. On this crossover podcast, Dr Vicky Conway and Tony are joi…
https://tortoiseshack.ie/ep-383-a-stand-for-truth-special/

Now, we should address the question of what if the 2004 Act had included a positive statement that its records were to remain sealed for 30 years.

Well, in that counter-factual circumstance, there would still be no legal bar on people seeking copies of records relating to them.

That’s because to blanket block access for 30 years would be to try to legislate to restrict the essence of an EU Law right.

Here’s the conventional statement on national laws that try to do that, from the European Data Protection Board: Image


That what the DPC told the Dept too.

We don’t know when the Minister found out they’d done that.


Government breaking the law by sealing mother and baby homes records, says DPCChildren’s Minister Roderic O’Gorman said that his advice from the Attorney General was that access to the records had been explicitly restricted by ...
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40070054.html

And that’s why the President was right to both sign the Act, and to remark that people can always challenge a *policy* if they think it’s wrong.

As Gov TDs have bleated, this 2020 act doesn’t create a 30 year seal.

It’s the policy (which wasn’t in front of MDH) which tried that
So, if you’re wondering how Minister O’Gorman could have done this- or you’re in the Green Party or another govt party and you can’t understand how you ended up being asked to stand again victim’s rights, I invite you to take an institutionalist view;
Like a human body, most things in a Govt department are done without the specific and conscious direction of the Minister.

In the same way that your body pumps blood, sucks in air and blows it out, digests food etc without you having to make it.
And the institution will just carry on doing the same things unless the Minister consciously decides they have to change.

Unfortunately, historically, Ministers have responded more to pressure and criticism (we’ll call it heat) than to reasoned argument (call it light).
This week has seen lots of heat, but also a lot of light.

And that’s the best combination- that’s what makes things better.

Sign the uplift petition if you haven’t already, contact your TDs. That’s what makes the heat that will shine the light.
There are unpleasant creatures who are drawn to heat- on any subject- and will try to co-opt it.

They are allergic to light, to any sort of reasoned argument.

We can safely leave them by themselves in the dark where they belong.
To that end, all RTs are gratefully received and welcomed.


Source below


 
OP
Colm

Colm

Member


So President Higgins had no alternative but to sign it,bye signing of on it he has left it where it can be challenged by any Citizen in the state,if he had not signed it the bill would have been passed anyway and could not have been challenged.
 
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